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TATRA - O " Tio-avô " dos VW Carocha e Porsche...

Tópico em 'O nosso hobby: Clássicos' iniciado por Marco Pestana, 18 Jan 2009.

Tópico em 'O nosso hobby: Clássicos' iniciado por Marco Pestana, 18 Jan 2009.

  1. Quer queiramos quer não, esta foi onde o Herr F. Porsche inspirou-se, e ainda mais depois da Alemanha "tomar" a Checoslováquia ...

    E anos mais tarde a TATRA processou o F. Porsche por "roubo" de patentes...

    ( Originalmente colocada por mim, no GARAGEM.VW )


    Umas fotos do museu da TATRA na República Checa!

    Infelizmente os checos não fazem carros com a BELEZA das raparigas checas!

    [​IMG]

    O TATRA modelo T-87

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    Comentou o meu amigo nuno g. sobre os TATRA:

    o carro é bonito mas lembro-me de ler numa classic car que a repartição de massas do 1ºs modelos era má e quando os alemães invadiram a checoslovaquia os oficias gostaram das linhas e requisitaram muitos destes carros

    parece que a instabildade a alta velocidade ou sob mau tempo matou mais oficiais alemães do que a resistência tendo o proprio comando alemão alertado os seus oficiais para o perigo


    foi o que li...


    nuno g


    E o amigo Migue Brito:


    Isso é verdade, também li isso. E o Alto Comando alemão proibiu as altas velocidades aos oficiais nazis, para evitar mais mortes, ao chegarem às curvas...

    O defeito era o peso e tamanho do V8 metido muito saliente na traseira.
    O defeito é reduzido nos carochas, pois o motor é em "H" deitado, baixando o centro de gravidade do conjunto, e pondo a caixa e motor mais sobre o eixo, e não em balanço para trás.
    De novo o problema se acentua nos 911, visto 6 cilindros ocuparem mais comprimento que 4 cilndros."
     
  2. [​IMG]

    Tatra- The Other Aircooled - Up To 1945



    Most people have never heard of the Czech auto firm of Tatra. Despite producing quality cars from 1897, right up to the early 1990s, Tatra was a very forward looking and technologically advanced automaker. However, the firm that could have done so well had two historic events that effectively prevented it from ever becoming a mainstream contender. Firstly, Tatra was involved before the war in production of innovative aircooled Peoples cars?, when the Germans moved in 1938 ? while production went on in limited numbers ? the company could never mass produce a rival to Germany's own peoples car. Secondly, the firm fell under the Soviet sphere after the war, The Russians nearly killed the firm, but eventually decided to let Tatra produce large, relatively luxurious models for the Czech state bureaucrats and officials and left Skoda to concentrate on cars for the masses.

    What makes Tatra so important was that they were doing exactly what Ferdinand Porsche was looking into, cheaper cars for the masses. Both Hans Ledwinka of Tatra, and Ferdinand Porsche were contemporary car designers, and would have known about each other work. Both favoured backbone chassis and rear mounted aircooled engines. In most ways Tatra's designed were more advanced, and Tatra easily beat Porsche in the first production of this type of car (indeed Tatra successfully sued VW in the 1950s). Both approaches were lucky to survive the war, VW was lucky enough to come under British control, and then German management. Tatra survived the war, but under Soviet control would never flourish to rival the western auto companies.

    In many ways the fate of Tatra would have been that of Volkswagen, if they had been unlucky enough to fall under the Iron Curtain.




    Tatra-Fritzmaurice
    [​IMG]

    The streamlining era at Tatra was foreshadowed in October 1933 by a special prototype displayed by the British Tatra consessionaire, one D. Fitzmaurice, at the Olympia Motor Show in London, England. It was called the Tatra-Fitzmaurice and had a streamlined body designed by D. Fitzmaurice and made by Thomas Harrington Ltd. (of England) mounted on a special Tatra-supplied chassis with a front-mounted 1.48-litre air-cooled 4-cylinder engine (a modified T75 unit). It was offered for sale at a very high price and no copies were built.



    The Tatra Goes Rear Aircooled

    Nineteen-thirty-three also marked the beginning of the era of Tatra automobiles with rear-mounted (directly behind the rear axle) aircooled engines, a requirement for the truly aerodynamically efficient automobile - at least as established scientifically by the Hungarian streamlining specialist Paul Jaray. As well this engine placement had an effect of reducing engine noise (air cooled units do tend to get noisy) inside the vehicle and allowed the front of a car to be as short as possible while prompting a long tail, both of which were aids in reducing aerodynamic drag. Of course one disadvantage of placing the engine in the rear is that it creates difficulty in attaining good weight distribution. The somewhat related concept of positioning the engine in front of the rear axle (so-called "mid engine" layout) would be better in this regard but very impractical for a multiple-passenger luxury automobile. And as a side note, having the engine and driving wheels on the same end has advantages, such as weight reduction, less efficiency loss in the drive, no vibrations caused by a long drive shaft, and a flat floor.


    The V570 prototype
    The importance of streamlining in automobiles cannot be overlooked. Aerodynamic efficiency has numerous advantages, some of the more significant are reduced fuel consumption, increased stability, possibility of higher speeds, and greater safety. In addition, it obviously creates an opportunity for interesting styling ideas.



    Tatra's First Concept

    Since about 1930 the Tatra design team, headed by Hans Ledwinka and composed notably of Erich Uberlacker and a few other engineers, had been considering the concept of mounting an air-cooled engine at the posterior end of a back-bone chassis.

    In 1931 an experimental prototype rear-engined Tatra was constructed with a conventional body which looked to be made up of standard components. It must have been successful as indicated by another prototype developed in 1933, the V570. This was a very advanced study-vehicle with an aerodynamic body of steel sheets covering a wooden structure and capable of seating 4 persons. A 854cc horizontally-opposed 2-cylinder air-cooled engine drove the rear wheels.



    Production - The Tatra T77


    The 5th of March, 1934, is certainly a date to remember. On that day took place the official introduction of the Tatra 77, having the honour of being the world's first serially produced aerodynamically styled automobile powered by an air-cooled rear-mounted engine. This massive and roomy, seating for six provided, luxury car had an exceptionally low coefficient of drag. The occupants sat low and comfortably between the axles of this V8-powered and astonishingly low 4-door automobile. With the steering wheel situated centrally at front, the driver must have had quite a view out the 45-degree slanted windshield. There was lots of luggage space, above the rear suspension and in the nose, where the spare tires and battery resided. The efficiently streamlined body, complete with stabilising dorsal fin, was mounted on a central tube chassis welded to a box-type frame which forked at back to surround the motor. Unfortunately the placement of the engine so far back did cause weight-distribution problems coupled with the swing-axle suspension which greatly affected handling, something that required quite a bit of getting used to. Nonetheless, the T77 was still a remarkable achievement considering, among other things, that its relatively small 2.97-litre power-plant propelled it to a top speed of over 140 km/h. The then chief engineer Erich Uberlacker was mainly responsible for the design and actually suggested the use of aerodynamic bodywork, for the construction of which a license from the Budd Manufacturing Co. of USA (where incidentally Hans Ledwinka's relative Joseph Ledwinka worked) was obtained.


    1935 Tatra T77a
    In 1935 followed the improved Tatra 77a. An extra central headlight was added and could optionally be made to turn with the steering wheel (more precisely, three different directions of the headlight were possible), that must have been quite the experience for night drivers! Increasing the capacity of the V8 to 3.4-litres raised output to 75 bhp and maximum speed to 150 km/h. Driving characteristics were also improved and the styling (aesthetically speaking) was cleaned-up slightly. Aerodynamics were still awesome with the drag coefficient of 0.21 (the cd of the original 77 is not exactly known but presumably is very similar).

    The production of both the T77 and T77a was very limited, numbering 105 of the former and no more than 150 of the latter. It is also important to note that, since both models (like most Tatra models) were hand built, no two were exactly alike.

    The Tatra 87

    Nineteen-thirty-six (1936) brought the company yet another name change. Baron Hans von Ringhoffer, the proprietor of the Tatra works since 1923, decided to combine Tatra with his Prague-Smichov wagon factory to create the Ringhoffer-Tatra concern.

    The remarkable T87, which happened to be Hans Ledwinka's favourite Tatra, also bowed in 1936 as a direct response to the critics of the previous model's unexceptional handling abilities. The weight was substantially reduced to 1370 kg (a saving of over 400 kg), accomplished by mounting a smaller 2.97-litre 75 bhp V8 made of alloy and by decreasing the length of the car (the wheelbase went from 3150 to 2850 mm). This greatly helped improve the weight distribution to 38% at front and 62% at rear which had a substantial effect on performance and driving characteristics. The drag coefficient of the T87, due to the shortened but still spacious body, did suffer but, at 0.36, was still exceptional in its day and even now would not be considered unacceptable. The rigid and double-walled body was now of monocoque (uni-body) construction and was especially strong in the passenger compartment, making it safer. And the windshield was flanked by small windows inserted at the A-pillars giving the driver, now positioned in the conventional fashion, exceptional visibility.

    The Tatra 87 attained at top speed of about 160 km/h and had good acceleration. Engine noise remained very low in the interior and the ride was pretty smooth even at higher speeds. And fuel economy was very good for a car of this class, at an average 12/13 litres per 100 km.

    Even though the Tatra T87 was a rather expensive luxury automobile, the company managed to sell 3056 copies of it until about 1950.


    The remarkable T87



    The Tatra 97


    the Tatra 97 people’s car
    Later during the year Erich Ledwinka, one of Hans' sons, replaced Mr. Uberlacker (who left due to a disagreement with management) as chief engineer. He would be responsible for the last pre-war Tatra automobile, the short-lived T97 which came out in about 1936/37. The T97 looked very much like a scaled-down T87 except for the missing central headlight, a flat one-piece windshield, and a rear glass split window instead of the 'Venetian blinds' which must have improved rearward visibility substantially. Otherwise its design and construction was essentially like that of the concurrently produced T87 and propulsion came from a 40 bhp 1.75-litre 4-cylinder unit which allowed a very respectable 130 km/h. And it was quite roomy inside despite the shorter length (and a wheelbase reduced by 250 mm to 2600 mm).

    In 1938 Tatra fell under German control due to the annexation of part of Czechoslovakia by the Germans. This meant halting all production and having all patents confiscated.

    World War II broke out in 1939 and Tatra was forced to produce military vehicles. The T87, referred to as "the Autobahn car" by the general inspector of Germany's Autobahn network, was also allowed into limited production (for civilian use) along with some other automobiles, Tatras proved very popular with German officers.. Strictly forbidden, however, was the manufacture of the T57 (which had been very popular) and especially the T97 "peoples cars", certainly due to their closeness to Porsche's Volkswagen design. Therefore the life of the T97 with a great potential for success as a family car was terminated after only 508 copies were produced.



    TATRA V570 Protótipo
    [​IMG]

    Tatra T77
    [​IMG]

    Publicidade TATRA 77 na época
    [​IMG]

    Publicidade TATRA 87
    [​IMG]

    TATRA 87

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    O Chassis MUITO SEMELHANTE aos VW Type1...

    [​IMG]

    Sem dúvida andamos nós em " Descendentes de TATRA"... :lol: :lol:
     
  3. O TATRA T-97 era designado como o " Carro do Povo"

    [​IMG]

    O motor refrigerado a ar do TATRA T-87

    [​IMG]

    TATRA 603

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Andamos decididamente de TATRA alterados... :lol:

    In 1938 Tatra fell under German control due to the annexation of part of Czechoslovakia by the Germans. This meant halting all production and having all patents confiscated.

    World War II broke out in 1939 and Tatra was forced to produce military vehicles. The T87, referred to as "the Autobahn car" by the general inspector of Germany's Autobahn network, was also allowed into limited production (for civilian use) along with some other automobiles, Tatras proved very popular with German officers.. Strictly forbidden, however, was the manufacture of the T57 (which had been very popular) and especially the T97 "peoples cars", certainly due to their closeness to Porsche's Volkswagen design. Therefore the life of the T97 with a great potential for success as a family car was terminated after only 508 copies were produced. "
     
  5. tópico muito interessante, pena o texto estar em Inglês, vai haver muita gente a não perceber, o que é uma pena.
     
  6. uma máquina com lugar cativo na história automóvel
    mais um belo video do leno B)
     
  7. Excelente tópico, sem dúvida uma marca notável.
     
  8. Belo carro,desconhecia a marca por completo:D
    Já na altura se faziam carros todos aerodinâmicos;)
     
  9. Já sabia alguma coisa sobre isso, mas aqui tudo explicadinho ficou bem melhor.
     
  10. Eu por acaso já conhecia a história de dos Tatra terem sido copiados pela VW, introduzindo algumas melhorias em relação aos modelos da marca checa que lhes serviram de inspiração.

    Os Tatra eram muito avançados para a época, tanto nas linhas aerodinâmicas, como no novo conceito do "tudo atrás" arrefecido a ar. O único defeito, era a má distribuição de massas no eixo traseiro, que tornava o carro instável nas curvas a alta velocidade. O Tatra 87, de 1938, atingia os 157 Km/h, uma velocidade notável para um carro de estrada naquele tempo.

    O Tatra Type 57, de 4 cilindros foi construído sob licença na Alemanha e na Áustria , que mais tarde deu origem ao popular Type 97. Foi nele que Ferdinand Porsche se "inspirou" para fazer o "Carro do Povo", que em alemão é "Volks Wagen", dando origem ao nome da marca alemã Volkswagen. Essa "inspiração", ou melhor, plágio, deu origem a numeroas queixas da Tatra, em tribunal, conta Ferdinand Porsche.
     
  11. Exelente tópico muito interessante.
     
  12. A Tatra imediatamente inicia uma acção legal, mas o assunto não foi resolvido até 1961, quando a Volkswagen foi condenada a pagar 3.000.000 de marcos alemães por danos.
     
  13. O Tatra T603 em acção em Goodwood.
     

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